Out Just in Time: Inside the Drone Strike on the Iraq Embassy - with Special Guest Ben Collins

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Cowboys, not Eggheads. Home of the brave, not home of the fearful. The world needs more cowboys and fewer eggheads. We're everywhere podcasts are found. So tell your fellow cowboys. And let's keep the conversation alive on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. Remember to subscribe, rate, review, and share. And now, Cowboys Not Eggheads with Sam Fisher.

SPEAKER_03 0:32

Today we're going to do a podcast with my friend Ben Collins, two-time guest of Cowboys Not Eggheads. And today we're probably going to get a little uh opinionated, maybe a little political, and maybe I'll get political actually, which I don't normally do, but it was interesting because I think our listeners will enjoy a little conversation of what we're about to talk about. And here's a man, Ben Collins. Welcome back to America. Ben just returned from America on March 20th, which is what I don't know, three weeks ago. And um, he returned from the embassy in Iraq. And so obviously there's a lot of things real time that are going on in the Middle East, and I'm really interested to get his take on things. Welcome back to the to Cowboys Not Eggheads, sir.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Hey, what's up, man?

SPEAKER_03 1:21

We know from previous podcasts that you it's safe to say that you are, and Ben's gonna stop me if I we can't talk about things that he can't talk about, but you're you you you work for a defense contractor, is that correct? In Iraq, that's what I picture your job.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

I do work for a contract team, yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:38

And you're your your specialty is training dogs, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Uh on this last mission, is that what you're managing managing the managing the the operation side of canine handling of the managerial side of things? Not the not the top guy, but I mean the intermedium.

SPEAKER_03 1:54

So what I'm picturing you do is like if there are bomb-sniffing dogs in Iraq, you've probably have something to do with that particular dog or handler.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

When there's whoever, if I'm on duty that shipped all of the I'm responsible for all of the bomb dog teams at the embassy that's working at that moment.

SPEAKER_03 2:10

Okay. So you're working for for for a company that has a contract. Um, and so you are you've been at the the the the embassy for how long up until March 20th? Uh it's over a year, I think.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

It no, it's significantly over a year. Uh we're looking at probably November 22.

SPEAKER_03 2:31

Okay, really? From November 22 to really I thought we had a podcast in between then. We did. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

We did, yes.

SPEAKER_03 2:38

Okay, but you're stateside at that point. I was on the basic last four years, you've you've spent the majority of your time in Iraq. Yes. Okay, so I think our listeners would be interested in knowing about that, particularly uh as to what's happened in the last uh couple of weeks in the Middle East. I guess my question is uh we did a pre-interview, sort of, and and and there's three or four things that I want to talk about, and it's gonna go many different directions here. But one of the things I thought was interesting that you mentioned was that you so first of all, let's talk about the the embassy in Iraq. What does it look like? I I I'm picturing like a big wall around a big compound, and in that big compound is it's almost like a castle or something. And and you walk in the door, and I'm not sure what you see, but uh you live in an apartment. There are many apartments. Is that correct in the embassy of Iraq? Tell me, tell me what it looks like. Just describe the embassy.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

Well, you could go to Google Images and you can find it out basically on Google Images.

SPEAKER_03 3:45

Yes, but they're listening to a podcast, so you have to describe it to them.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

But there's a lot of things that I can't talk about involving the overlay because everything's free reign. But when it's talking about certain aspects of the if I was to make an example of what the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad is comparable to, I'd say a college campus.

SPEAKER_03 4:03

So it's a big place, a big spread.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

It's the biggest that we that the United States owns in all the embassies combined.

SPEAKER_03 4:10

Okay. So what is it, like five city blocks or something?

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Uh more than that.

SPEAKER_03 4:16

Ten city blocks. Uh imagine Imagine an irrigation pivot.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

We're probably looking about that. But then there's all the there's also the Baghdad Diplomatic Uh Support Center, which is an off-compound thing. And that's usually where the in the compound. I'm at the compound.

SPEAKER_03 4:34

You live in the compound and you try and you do your job in the compound. Okay. And the compound sounds like about the size of a frickin' irrigation circle or something.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

It's not big. It is kind of big to the extent, but everything's within walking distance.

SPEAKER_03 4:51

Okay. It doesn't take long to but is there a big wall around the compound?

SPEAKER_01 4:55

Well, you have to. Yes. Right?

SPEAKER_03 4:56

How tall is this wall?

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Well, T walls or T walls, T walls are about anywhere. Shit. 20, 30 feet.

SPEAKER_03 5:06

Okay. Yes. You're protected.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

There's walls.

SPEAKER_03 5:09

Okay. So you mentioned to me that a drone flew into the apartment below you. Did I get that right?

SPEAKER_01 5:18

Well, yes. There's a there's a drone that impacted facility.

SPEAKER_03 5:23

When did this happen? On the 19th of March.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 5:26

And you were out the 20th of March. And what did what was that like?

SPEAKER_01 5:31

It was about the 20th of March because they tried to move us and we had to stay over at BDSC for a couple of nights sleeping on a cot. BDSC. They couldn't move us out.

SPEAKER_03 5:39

BDSC.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

The Baghdad Diplomatic Support Center.

SPEAKER_03 5:43

Thank you. Now, what was it like? What time of the day did this drone hit this apartment below you?

SPEAKER_01 5:50

It was in the middle of the night.

SPEAKER_03 5:51

In the middle of the night. And is it some dude had his window open and the drone flew right in there and blew up?

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Everything's hard in facility, hardened structure on that compound if it's involving living areas or living facilities. The windows are all pretty like not indestructible, but they're pretty thick. Like, for instance, if there was any comparison in Afghanistan, the S there was an SDA that had a like a rocket.

SPEAKER_03 6:16

What's an SDA?

SPEAKER_01 6:18

Uh like single dormitory uh it's a drone. No, SDA is a housing complex. Oh okay. SDA is a housing complex.

SPEAKER_03 6:29

That's fine. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

A rocket hit one of these SDA windows and it didn't detonate and it got lodged within there. The window stopped the rocket, but the rocket was lodged inside of the window. So EOD had to do some like stuff and take out the window and de-arm it and everything. And this window that you see that was over where we had stored our uh explosives for dog training, we got to see this big old hole in the window where it stopped the rocket. So these windows, they're pretty durable. They're not slouches.

SPEAKER_03 7:02

Okay, so what happened on the night that this happened?

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Well, we're getting droned, we're getting attacked. So there's what does it sound like?

SPEAKER_03 7:12

Oh, he's gonna pull up a video. Good.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

No, not gonna pull up a video, sir.

SPEAKER_03 7:16

Oh pull up audio.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

I'm gonna pull up audio.

SPEAKER_03 7:18

Yeah, put it right there in that mic so we can hear it. So that was like an explosion? No, no. It was a big crash sound. I can't tell you. Okay. It's an anti-defense thing. Okay. Um were there sirens going off? What alert did you have? Is there something going off on your phone?

SPEAKER_01 7:56

Oh, then that's that's that's you were thinking first world country. There is no infrastructure in Iraq. Infrastructure is hanging on by by thoughts and prayers. Okay. Their infrastructure is so delicate that it would take one asshole to have the to have the gumption and be like, I want to wreck shit, and they're fing done.

SPEAKER_03 8:17

Okay. So um so this is there's no warning. All of a sudden you hear the sound, you're awakened by that sound.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

Yep. So you wait, you're waiting for a blast. What do you do?

SPEAKER_03 8:28

Like, do you like get away from a window?

SPEAKER_01 8:30

What what are you going to do?

SPEAKER_03 8:31

I don't know, dude. I would get under the bed and pray. What are you getting under the bed for? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

Yeah, exactly. So here's what I'm gonna do. I remember the 70s. Well, no, because you're because that's stupid. Yes, yes, but this is nighttime, so they do have night vision devices on these drones to be able to see and thermal and everything, but those cost money. So more than likely, they're just using cameras that's attached to the drone to be able to fly in. So the alarm goes off, and you start going off and you start hearing all these things, and then all of a sudden there's a lull, so it's dead. There's nothing. And you're like, all right, maybe it decided to go off another path until it decides to make another turn by or fly by, or you'll hear a blast, and you do hear a blast, and you're like, all right, let me inspect where that was. That was close by, and then you look over on the compound and you see some smoke coming up from one of the main buildings that's on the compound. You're like, all right, that was that. Well, this night it uh died down. So I said, Okay, nothing's happening. All right, bet. So I go back to sleep, and then right before impact, all you hear is this high-pitch, like drone, like mechanical whirr. Hits smack in the side of the building that I'm living on. My roommate is right next in the room next to me. It impacts, and we're all I've already like almost fit went to sleep. And I go ahead and like, hey man, you good? You alright? And he's like, Yeah, I'm fine, because our beds are right around into that area, right next to the wall. And then as you look on onto the side, the next day, and all of us are like, Well, we're all alive, obviously. I saw the fire burn up on the side of the wall, the rest of whatever fuel that was on the drone. So there was a fire on the side of the building, and then it extinguished itself because there was no more fuel giving it the fire fuel. And then the next day we got to see what happened, and it hit the room below us almost at the window, like they were trying to aim for the window, but didn't get it. And they got the side of the building, and everything on that side of the building was cracked and dug disheveled off and everything. My roommate's room right above that impact, and then I'm right over here on the left.

SPEAKER_03 10:56

So the next day, somebody says, Hey, we're getting out of here. Well, we're supposed to leave that night. Oh, I see. Oh, it was already scheduled supposed to leave that night. And so uh you believe, perhaps, that whoever sent this drone probably knew that you were supposed to leave that night. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_01 11:15

Who the f knows, man?

SPEAKER_03 11:16

They've got there's always it could have been just a random drone, we don't know.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

Well, they're they're bringing up their attacks.

SPEAKER_03 11:23

So who who who I don't mean to be ignominious by asking this question, because it who who do you think sent that drone off? Was it Lebanon? Was it Iran? Was it Iraq? Could have been it could have been any all the above.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

You're asking somebody who used to be in the loop of intelligence be through the military, where I used to have an actual part in the security and the base defense of the installation. This isn't like that anymore.

SPEAKER_03 11:49

But it could have been any of the above, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:51

Who the f knows? Nobody knows. Nobody, well, no, they know. They're just like, hey man, you're not.

SPEAKER_03 11:58

Well, you're right, it's a need-to-know basis. Yep. Okay. So you were set tonight, set, leave that night. You didn't, or a drone went off, and then the next morning, what happened?

SPEAKER_01 12:07

We got we've got notified. It was like, all right, get your shit, get your dogs, move everything. We traveled to where we're gonna fucking fly out of.

SPEAKER_03 12:16

BDSC. BDSC. How far of distance is it from the embassy?

SPEAKER_01 12:20

About 35-minute drive.

SPEAKER_03 12:21

Okay. So we call it. And is it is the drive nowadays through Baghdad Baghdad is it is it safe?

SPEAKER_01 12:28

People drive through Baghdad all the time.

SPEAKER_03 12:30

So you you'd have no problem letting me take a rental car through Baghdad from the embassy to the BDSC.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

Well, you can't.

SPEAKER_03 12:38

Well, assume that I could for a second.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

I wouldn't. Okay, you wouldn't do that. You look white, you are not part of the region. If you were to go around driving down in Baghdad, you get some looks.

SPEAKER_03 12:51

You get some looks. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

You're not, you're not supposed to be there.

SPEAKER_03 12:56

It'd be the equivalent of uh me driving. I don't think there's any place in home I wouldn't drive anymore because I'm armed, but um, but it'd be like uh if I went south side of Chicago in the middle of the night, just not something you'd do.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

No, because there you don't, you don't you can be driving out there because you have no context of what the threat is.

SPEAKER_03 13:16

So how do you then so how are you escorted in a freaking Humvee or armored carrier?

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Armored vehicles.

SPEAKER_03 13:23

You're an armored vehicle, okay. Armored vehicles, okay. Anytime there's anytime anybody as pulling into my driveway as you did in that armored vehicle. Pretty safe. I assume you feel about felt about as safe driving that armored vehicle as you did pulling in my driveway.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

No, you're not you're asking somebody who's been blown up in vehicles that are armored through IEDs.

SPEAKER_03 13:42

So anytime you go for a little car ride or little ride through the city of Baghdad.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

You need to be paying attention out the fucking window.

SPEAKER_03 13:49

Your butt is clenched just a bit.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

You need to pay attention to your surroundings. You need to say, if you see something, you need to say it.

SPEAKER_03 13:55

Yeah. The end. Okay. There's no second guessing. So just just that ride is always interesting. Um and so you drove 35 minutes, you're unscathed, I hope. All all the way to the BDSC. Now, who guards the BDSC? United States military? No. Who's guarding it? Nobody?

SPEAKER_01 14:15

It's whatever contracting agency is assigned have got the win on the contract.

SPEAKER_03 14:19

Gotcha. But it is being guarded. Some somebody with a gun's gun is freaking guns. Is is is guarding this facility. Now, you're stuck at the BDSC for a while.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 14:31

How long? Like about two days. Two days. Then what happens?

SPEAKER_01 14:35

We're waiting for a flight, and then we're just constantly getting incoming and drone detect. So during the onset of this whole two-week process, before we are able even able to leave, BDSC, what they used to call victory base, used to be what's called victory base. So when people say, hey, what's victory? It's like victory base, it's non-recognizable anymore. It's because it's no longer there. Right. Because it's BDSC. So you have everything that goes on there is like the BDSC aspect of the compound. It's a diverse group of United Nations personnel. And I'm gonna be very general with that about who is who is assigned there along with contracting agencies, uh, other contractors that work for these agencies, multiple agencies, and they have a whole system of like, hey, this is basically our community. It's no different than it's think of it like small town. It's the exact same thing. Small town.

SPEAKER_03 15:40

I'd think of it as uh like a military base or small town.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

No, it's small town just guarded.

SPEAKER_03 15:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Imagine Ashland.

SPEAKER_03 15:49

Well uh but you feel safe in Ashland. Do you you you don't necessarily feel safe? I don't feel safe anywhere. Okay, you don't even feel safe. You're talking it, you're if you had to okay, what's the safest you'd feel in the same way? You're you're talking about embassy or BDSC.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

So when you're the same, so when you're in an austere environment like Iraq or Afghanistan, Iran, Syria, Pakistan, you as an American are not safe anywhere. You can say people can tell you that you're safe because it's the facade of the feeling of like, yes, I feel safe. But feeling and actually are two totally different things because the war has changed. Before we're always worried about ground troops, or about like, all right, stand two at night, hours of darkness, where your eyes are starting to adjust to the light, to the sensitivity of the dark to the darkness. So they start focusing in. Well, when do attacks happen? During stand two, when you're trying to adapt. You don't move during that, during those positions because the enemy's gonna attack. And that's what's been going on. They've been droning the fuck out of us. The war has evolved to where it's like they don't need small arms fire anymore. Is that still on the table? Of course. You still have to plan for that. But the way that things are going, even mortars, mortars are kind of like gone away now because they hit, they miss, you have to dial it in, you're giving away your position. All it takes is a spotter to see, identify where the mortar is going by doing some math, and then all of a sudden they've already figured out your location, right? So drones, there's no math. Drones is like, okay, do you have an eye on? Where is this being done? And then you have the fiber optic drones. Fiber optic drones carry on things, and then all of a sudden you just see spider webs everywhere. Who's paying for these drones? I don't know. Do you know? Nobody's giving me information for that. I would have a whole bunch of theories.

SPEAKER_03 17:36

I would assume. You could put tinfoil hat.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

Here we go. Let's put a tinfoil hat on our head. And let's say that it was just supplied by a friendly nation to create and stir up all this bullshit so we get into a conflict or war.

SPEAKER_03 17:50

Well, I would assume it's China or Russia would be paying for these drones.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

Why? Why would they be paying for it?

SPEAKER_03 17:57

Because they are not an ally of the United States of America.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

They're not necessarily that's fair. That is also fair. And I mean if it involves and this is just Ben talking. If it involves fucking maybe it's NATO.

SPEAKER_03 18:11

They don't like America right now. Maybe it's NATO who paid for the drones.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

I'm gonna be pro-US over fucking China, Russia, or anybody.

SPEAKER_03 18:18

You've got the stripes to prove that, brother.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

I want I want the U.S. to have the oil. I want the U.S. to be the main source of like, hey man, we're secure in our shit. I don't know about you guys, but you better figure something out.

SPEAKER_03 18:30

Okay. He's not gonna answer the question of who paid for the drones. Because I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

I okay why would and even if I did know, even if I did know.

SPEAKER_03 18:38

All right, you wouldn't tell a little plebeian piece of shit like me.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

I couldn't say that anywhere because then my security clearance.

SPEAKER_03 18:47

Yes, there's a yes, right? Let's be realistic about this. And uh so let's talk for a second about you can't handle the truth. The famous line from from a few good men. Yeah, that absolutely applies, doesn't it? Would you agree with that? You can't most people most people couldn't handle the truth of most Americans can't handle the truth.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

I'm gonna be very selective with words here.

SPEAKER_03 19:14

No, that's a first.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

If you're an American and whatever you see on the news through any me, they wouldn't be able to comprehend or rationalize anything because it makes sense or it doesn't make sense. Why are you doing it that way? Why are you putting people in harm's way? Why are you doing this? Why are you doing that when we could be doing this? When you have people with experience who have this operational experience, has been in these positions to be able to do this is how you do it. Yeah, but those people aren't in charge. Who's in charge? Got me, man. Not you. Nope, not the guy that's been through this, who's got the experience, who's led, who's managed flights, and multiple installation defenses involving security and managing 150 plus personnel guarding the sites.

SPEAKER_03 20:13

I thought the RSO was in charge.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

RSO, he is in charge. RSOs are in charge. They are the client. If they what they say goes.

SPEAKER_03 20:22

Now, when you say they are the client, that's an interesting. I uh help me understand that.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

RSOs represent the government, Department of State.

SPEAKER_03 20:29

Okay, they're a client of the government.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

No, they are the client. Contracting agencies serve them.

SPEAKER_03 20:36

Oh, they're the boss. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're the boss. I got you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh, sure. Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. You're the you're the person doing the work for the client. Okay, I'm with you. Okay. Okay, let's get back to BDSC. So you're there for two days and then you're gonna get you get on a flight. How far is that? So you're flying out of the Baghdad International Airport or are you flying off of an airbase somewhere?

SPEAKER_01 20:58

International airport.

SPEAKER_03 20:59

So you're flying out of the Baghdad International Airport. How far is it from uh the BDSC to the airport?

SPEAKER_01 21:10

So in a civilian plane, air to Qatari, not Qatari Airways, but the the C-130 plane that we used to prop, that it was a charter plane selected specifically for selected specifically for uh the flying in of contractor personnel or United States personnel that are working at Baghdad and Baghdad Embassy Compound or BDSC. They'd fly in on the C-130, certain amount of people that are able to get on, and they fly them in a couple of times or certain dishes.

SPEAKER_03 21:43

May I stop you there, sir. The C 130, what I No, it's not a C 130. Oh, I'm sorry, it's aerocent. Okay, but it is that the airplane what I'm picturing in my mind is four rotors. Is the the when it with the Afghanistan withdrawal, there's people hanging on to this plane as they're trying to

SPEAKER_01 22:00

That's a C17.

SPEAKER_03 22:01

Oh, so it's not even the right plane.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

No propellers on that.

SPEAKER_03 22:04

So I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 22:05

That is a jet engine.

SPEAKER_03 22:06

Okay. So this is a prop plane, a propeller plane.

SPEAKER_01 22:11

C-130s are propeller planes.

SPEAKER_03 22:13

Okay. But it's a cargo. C stands for cargo, right? So you can like load a tank on this thing. How big is it? How big a plane is it?

SPEAKER_01 22:22

Let's say you're loading a tank on this. This is a cargo plane, but it's not like that type of cargo.

SPEAKER_03 22:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:29

Tanks you need C7.

SPEAKER_03 22:30

Big big containers of food or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

Foods, personnel, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 22:34

So when you're on this plane, how many human beings are on this plane? Can't tell you, ma'am. Are you sitting? I don't think some of this well, okay. Are you so you're sitting in the hole of a plane? It's not like the airliner. Is that fair to say? I don't think that's confidential.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Well, if we get let me finish the question about the time first, because you're starting to stray, you're starting to do a me.

SPEAKER_03 23:02

Yes, I am.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

So good for you for bringing me back into when you're bringing in on this plane and this charter plane that's a C-130 or C-130 type aircraft, just a cargo plane, just retrofitted with airline seats. That's all it is. It's like retrofitted with airline seats. So we sit in the designated seat that we get from Jordan to fly into Iraq. So it takes like about a power and a half.

SPEAKER_03 23:30

So it's an actual airline seat.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

This is an actual airline seat. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 23:32

They give you more leg room than a normal airline.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

No, it's shitty. These you you if you've been flying anytime in the past 10 years, you're gonna be like, oh, they've updated the interior of these cabins. They look pretty fancy. They got help the LCD rest now. You can hook up your phone to the internet, okay, watch TV on your phone. These things look like you could still smoke in them.

SPEAKER_03 24:01

Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

They all are from like dated back to the 70s.

SPEAKER_03 24:07

They're like chickens on the plane with you, kind of thing. Indiana Jones. Yeah, Indiana Jones type. Okay. So you're flying from Baghdad to where? Jordan? Or where you're?

SPEAKER_01 24:16

Yes, Jordan.

SPEAKER_03 24:17

Jordan. Okay. And how how long of flight is that?

SPEAKER_01 24:21

Typically about an hour and a half on the C 130 type aircraft.

SPEAKER_03 24:25

Okay. And what time of the day did you uh lift off of Baghdad?

SPEAKER_01 24:29

Uh we left sometime in the yeah, we left about two o'clock in the afternoon.

SPEAKER_03 24:36

Okay. So then you get into Jordan, and Jordan is is it a safer place than you were just at, or is it about the same as you described? You're an American, you're white. It's different.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

Jordan, those the Middle East, in the Middle East, they're in a different country.

SPEAKER_03 24:53

A long time out of the year.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

Different countries are react very differently to certain Jordan is an ally. They've been buddies with us. It's been for for yeah forever. So, but you remember during the Saudi, during Saddam Hussein's reign, who is his buddies, Jordan. He gave them oil, he gave them all the free shit, right? So that was a conflict of interest. So now you have all these things. Jordan is our friend, yes. So we have all these things. Jordan has Christianity. I've traveling through and I've taken cabs in Jordan because I go do a cross, I do a drop-it in a CrossFit gym over there when I'm there and I go work out, or I'll just go try and grab some food when I was walking a dog. I'd have to go walk the dog down areas. I'm not saying that I felt safe. I'm just like, I know where to hang out at. I'm not being an idiot. I know to be under light, be visible. I'm not taking shadowy ass dark alleyways. I'm staying in public view. I see officers. I'm staying in areas where it's like you just can't swoop me out without somebody noticing.

SPEAKER_03 26:06

Right. Gotcha. So are you but are you just transferring in Jordan? Like you transfer in a hub in an airline, or you're there for several days or however we're there for about a night.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

Some some, depending if you're carrying a dog, you stay over a night a week or two.

SPEAKER_03 26:19

Where where are you staying at? In the floor.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

This hotel, this contracted hotel that they have contracted out with.

SPEAKER_03 26:24

Okay, so you had to go to a hotel and the next day you come back to the airport.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

Yep. Come back to the airport and get checked through like four or five different screenings.

SPEAKER_03 26:32

Okay. And then uh, so you go fly from Jordan to Jordan back to the States. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

Flew through JFK.

SPEAKER_03 26:40

JFK. Okay. So you land in JFK. Okay. So that's a but what kind of plane are you going from Jordan to JFK? Justari Airways. Okay, so it's a normal airliner. Yep. Okay. 740. Whatever. Okay. All right. And then so you're back in the States, you get to JFK. And um, what do you go through a more rigorous return process or less rigorous return process when you get to the United States of America? In other words, our our uh your passport stamp, your visa stamp, or what what that's and they ask you what were you doing there, or what sometimes you get questions.

SPEAKER_01 27:19

It's like, hey man, where you I work there.

SPEAKER_03 27:21

Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

So it's a normal, but you're going through the normal is like, yeah, man, I work there. I work for the United States government there. The end. Yeah. What else do you need to know?

SPEAKER_03 27:30

It's the same, it's the same gate that I would go through if I freaking okay, okay. All right. Same shit.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

If you're from out of country, you gotta process through just like everybody else. Nothing is fing different.

SPEAKER_03 27:43

Okay, okay, I got you. So you're but you're now in America. And when you get to America, how do you feel? Do you feel a word from the millennial generation? How did you feel? Did you feel relieved? I'm in America. Yeah, just fing home.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

Yeah, you're home. I'm in the best country in the fing world. Yeah, yeah. What are you talking about? Yeah. I have I have reliable, stable internet. I can make a phone call without worrying about whether or not Tasha hears me or not, or she or she can't hear me. She sees a face or she sees still. I'm calling people. I can call my dad, and my dad's not, hey, I can't hear you. I'm let's let's be able to do it.

SPEAKER_03 28:19

Go out on the street and not worry about who's watching who, or so blood tests.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

Like I had a blood test, my uh blood work done when I came back. And then and uh my primary care manager, she was like, Hey man, your cortisol levels are all through the f roof. Hey man, your blood work's coming out good, you don't have prostate issues, you don't have any, but your hey man, this she they considered they uh there was a couple of other things that they said, hey man, this is stress related. So everything was elevated due to stress. So everything is like coming back, now I can decompress. Decompress. I mean it's it's a load off your shoulders, it's just it's like taking a weight off the same process that I've done in the military, being deployed many times, numerous times when I reintegrate back into the States.

SPEAKER_03 29:08

So, what's the first thing that you do when you get to the United States of America? Experience ice again or uh Heinz ketchup or what? Well, I don't drink what do you miss? What do you miss the most?

SPEAKER_01 29:18

I don't drink. I don't do really any of it. Really, it's slit like sleeping. Tasha gives me a lot of shit because I sleep a lot. I sleep a lot here because over there I don't get a lot of sleep.

SPEAKER_03 29:29

Yeah, so if you're sleeping what over there, three hours a night?

SPEAKER_01 29:31

No, I get about six to seven hours.

SPEAKER_03 29:34

Over here, though, is no problem. I get 10 to 12.

SPEAKER_01 29:37

Tasha tells me that I'm you can't sleep any more asleep than you what you do. Like you can't get any better sleep.

SPEAKER_03 29:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:46

So it's like, yeah, I I tend to sleep in when I'm home.

SPEAKER_03 29:49

That's beautiful. Yeah, that's the luxury of being home.

SPEAKER_01 29:52

It is. It's decompressing, doing all reintegrating with friends and everything, getting to see my dogs. So yeah, definitely coming back to stateside on any given rotation. I go over there and nothing happens, and I come back, and then yeah, reintegration is definitely something to look forward to.

SPEAKER_03 30:09

Okay. Now we're going to three different, very three different things. I believe that Israel is an ally, a very strong ally of the United States of America. Do you agree?

SPEAKER_01 30:28

I'm not disagreeing with it at all.

SPEAKER_03 30:31

Should the United States of America is it in the interest of the United States of America to be an ally with Israel?

SPEAKER_01 30:41

I would say yes. From a strategic standpoint, it makes sense. I mean, let's be realistic about this. I've I mean, I I talked to you offline about this. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 30:51

And I don't want to put you in a position. You're not putting me in.

SPEAKER_01 30:53

This is this is all opinion. Okay. Hey, opinion. Okay. Ben's opinion. Opinion piece. I don't represent it.

SPEAKER_03 30:58

My opinion, too.

SPEAKER_01 31:00

Israel's Israel's got their bat to the waterside, and they're faced with like five or six countries that want them explicitly obliterated off the map. Explicitly. It's been centuries. Stop talking about the Gaza bullshit. Stop talking about the Palestinian bullshit. Stop talking and go all the way the f back. They wanted them killed from way back when. I'm sorry, but you're not gonna get my you're not gonna get me to side with that against people that explicitly in their vernacular, in their writings, in their doctrine, to eliminate a whole so no, I don't necessarily agree with us doing some of the things that we're doing with Israel, but I do stand with like, yeah, man, Israel's our ally. Somebody's gotta who's who else is going to protect them if stupid shit goes down? And we could go back and we could say that the f way back remember when they stole all those uh hostages at the Olympics?

SPEAKER_03 32:03

No, yeah, how old was I?

SPEAKER_01 32:06

Oh no, this is before your time. Oh no, no, it's 70s.

SPEAKER_03 32:10

Oh 73 or 72. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

When they 74, they got all those shits this shit's been going on since ever since.

SPEAKER_03 32:18

Right.

SPEAKER_01 32:19

They've been it's like it the whole nobody knows who started it. You could say Israel started, you could say all the of the all this other. It's like the the the moot point of the fact is you could bring up whatever history that you want to bring up, but there's gonna be some history that precedes that. It's like, no, you're wrong, because this is what happened, and then everybody's like, well, that's new information, or they choose not to take in the new information. Nobody knows who's started this shit. It's been going on since the dawn of time, since history has been recorded.

SPEAKER_03 32:50

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 32:51

The area is all fed up.

SPEAKER_03 32:53

It's not something that it won't it won't get responsible.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

It's not changing within our generation, it's not changing within the next generation, it's not gonna change within the next five generations. The only time it changes if there's a very big fing shakeup. Something serious has to happen. And I don't know what that looks like.

SPEAKER_03 33:14

Well, it's uh Russia and China.

SPEAKER_01 33:19

That's a whole other fucking topic.

SPEAKER_03 33:21

Ganging up against the rest of us.

SPEAKER_01 33:23

That's a whole other finging topic.

SPEAKER_03 33:24

Well, is it or isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 33:25

Because China wants Taiwan, and Taiwan's like right now, that's the thing. China doesn't give a f about the Middle East. Well, there's interest because Iran and the oil, those straight of horror movies, the Honda, the Venice. There's interest, but they got their own shit to worry about. Russia, Russia ain't got time to input and they're fing with Ukraine. Sure, there's some dip some diplomat talking and trying to negotiate while the shits are going on. No different than us when we have five different things going on at once. Well, we're in Korea, we're in Europe, Middle East, we're in Syria, South America, we're in Guam, South America, we're in Africa. Like, we're all over the place. And we have our people that are on diplomats and everything, coordinating, trying to lead up things and everything. But nobody, we're so far away in the fing water. I'm like, what are you gonna do? You're gonna launch shit at us? You're gonna you're you're gonna commit suicide by launching shit at us so we can launch the shit right back at you, and then everybody's f you might get this, but you'll never see it, just like we won't.

SPEAKER_03 34:38

What do you say to people who who who would you say to a uh the perspective of the United States just shouldn't engage in anything outside of their country? That we shouldn't be involved with with Iran, that we shouldn't be involved, we should never have been involved with Iraq, that we should never been involved. I mean, what do you say to people who just say just just hey, we're we're not gonna do anything militarily abroad unless somebody attacks us?

SPEAKER_01 35:14

Well, I served during I served during the initial, like I I came in before like there were any wars, right? Came in in nine in uh 98. Came in in 98. 91, but that was when I what the first in work, the one that lasted five days. It actually was a five-day war. Come on. Let's be realistic. That wasn't a war. That was a conflict. Sure, there was fing tensions and everything. That was conflict. The the shit when I came in, it was 98. There was no there was a I remember being in basic and seeing something pop off about in the Middle East. I remember specifically being in basic and being like, huh, alright. But there was nothing really serious going on during that time. Everything was trained in regimen of dress and appearance, common common tactics involving like moving, shooting, move, shooting, moving, communicating. We were still wearing BDUs, battle dress uniforms. You know, they had just combined the career fields, CADM, security forces, and K9 all into one, like in '97, '96. So there was a whole thing of like learning out and figuring out this, how this thing. I came in when they had just changed the curriculum from security long into combined. Because when I came in, I came in a security long, which meant that I was 60 gunner and I was probably going to go to a nuclear, to a nuclear base, my naught or some shit, Malmstrom, F.E. Warren, some northern tier place where you get lost. Well, in that process, I went from security longs like, hey, all of that is scratched now. We're all doing this thing now in the middle of training, and we had to adapt. So this was the process of all the combined joint forces. We're learning law enforcement and security at the same time, not just security. So it was law enforcement and security at the same time because they classified us separately. Hey, man, you're security short, your security long, or your law enforcement. And then back in the day, you're a canine, or you're CAM in the security forces element. That's how it was back in the day. But now they joined everything. So everybody had to come up as the all together, and then you branched out into CADM or canine or whatever base you like. I could work one day security, like working on the flight line, and the next day I'll be working at a gate, waving traffic through saluting officers coming through, and then working patrol the next day, right? So all of these things, it was it was constantly changing and evolving, and we didn't really get into what is going on here in the Middle East until well, obviously September 11th, where you started now. It's time to go. Because I remember desert training when you got stationed over at Pisa, which is back then Tent City was a little bit hairy, but we had dorms, they just built up these dorms under in Saudi Arabia. So you're training for desert warfare training in Indian Springs, and you're learning how to fight in the desert, essentially. Set up base, set up a bear base, set up all these things, work rest schedules, all of these things you should learn at an airman, and it transfers all the way up to the highest leadership potential, right? So you're learning from the bottom up. So we've been learning how to do desert warfare since shit, ever since, since I've been in, since I joined the last quarter century. So desert warfare is all we know, or all I know for the most part, and now things are starting to get hairy because you saw that rush you because like being a dog handler in a temperate environment in the forest where you have to do a dismounted patrol during forest and deal with the shit that they dealt in Vietnam for booby traps. That's a nightmare. Yeah, that's a fing nightmare.

SPEAKER_03 39:16

You can't see anything, you don't have no visibility, it's completely different in the desert.

SPEAKER_01 39:19

You'd have uh in the desert, you have open spaces, get the dog off lead, early warning device. That's all the dog is. Early warning device, right? Dogs alerting you way ahead in advance before you even step on the bench, yeah, right. Well, when you're in a forest, that dog's not out there because you have to maintain eye.

SPEAKER_03 39:36

He'd right here with you.

SPEAKER_01 39:37

You have to maintain control of him or sight of him. He could be out and about and everything, but you hear all these things involving like some dogs you pick up on human odor as they're breathing through the reeds underneath the water, and they alert to reeds because all the reeds are sticking out, they'd alert to like, hey, that's a human, and then they just snag him up or take them or whatever. But then you have dogs that were keen on to hearing hearing the air pass over the wire in some of these jungle instances for booby traps, like they'd be able to sense that or hear that and then recognize that. So it's a whole bunch of things involving.

SPEAKER_03 40:10

So it's yeah, it's different. It's evolved, everything's evolved.

SPEAKER_01 40:13

It's still evolving, it is still evolving.

SPEAKER_03 40:16

And and and so, and so what do you tell somebody who says I tell them hey, you know, let's just let's not fight anybody else's words.

SPEAKER_01 40:28

Your opinion is your opinion. You have every fing right to say whatever the f you want. But don't come in here and act like you know what the f is going on when you have no context, when all you've done is sit back behind a fing TV and armchair quarterback shit while your fing buddies are getting high while my buddies are fing dying.

SPEAKER_03 40:43

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_01 40:44

You don't know what the f is going on over there. I prefer if you keep your mouth fing shut, especially around me, because I'm not gonna want to fing here. Talk all your shit with all your other shitheads about this is f up. This is how I would do things, just like those motherfuckers come out. I wish a TI would, because I'd deck them as like, no, you wouldn't. That TI'd f you up six ways from Sunday. What's a TI? I'm sorry. Training instructor or a DI drill instructor.

SPEAKER_03 41:09

DI, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:10

Basic training, all these guys. Oh, I almost served. Oh, that's cute. Yeah, whatever. That's fing cute.

SPEAKER_03 41:15

You know what I say, Ben, is I just say there's a reason that most presidents, with the exception of our current one, um their hair goes gray very quickly. And the reason, the reason for that, in my opinion, is that every morning, yeah, every morning they get a briefing. It's the one thing that they get every day. It doesn't matter where they're at, doesn't matter if they're playing golf or they're on vacation or whatever. They have this thing called a national security briefing.

SPEAKER_02 41:43

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 41:43

And in this briefing, there are things of your worst nightmares. Intel that says something to the effect, I'm just saying there's a plot to blow up the entire city of Los Angeles. We believe this to be a 30% certainty. Now, what in the hell are you supposed to do with that kind of information? That's that's that's my explanation. And that's just but there's also things that the whole world is connected, is it not? The whole world is connected. Well, when you travel to economically, it is financially, uh, militarily, strategically, the whole world is connected. Is there is there a reason the gas gas prices were higher? Yeah, because the straight of her uh her mouth was closed down. It's and so it's connected, but also and you can of course argue that that's that's you know that's Trump's fault.

SPEAKER_01 42:39

But every small thinking dissociative from us from everything, also like you can't make the comparisons like yes, we're we economically we're impacted through everything that's going on in the world. But what goes on in our Iran shooting their own citizens for for protesting? 40,000 people dead, citizens, fat uh wrestler, real Olympic level wrestler, just there, just there, wasn't speaking out, wasn't doing shit, snatched his ass up, executed him for no reason, because he those are the kind of people that I don't have the intel, and neither do you and people don't trust intel because they've been lied to over the years, so I get it.

SPEAKER_03 43:27

But if you have intel that says that these kind of people that do those kind of things have access to a nuclear bomb or a capability of making a nuclear bomb, within the next month, you've got to make a decision as to how you're going to handle it. Are we gonna sit back and just wait for it to happen?

SPEAKER_01 43:49

I would and I would agree 100%. It's like having it's like giving it's like giving uh handing grenades to six year olds, right? You don't do that. No, don't do that because they're emotional. Immature. They don't know the processes. They're not looking at the repercussions of what happens.

SPEAKER_03 44:05

And of course, to be fair, there are people who think our commander-in-chief is of the same milk. It is fair. To be very serious, it is fair. When you say things about wiping out civilizations, it's fair to f and say that.

SPEAKER_01 44:20

The problem is, though, when you have a regime that's like that and they're very willing to go off. Granted, they're older and they're the one of the oldest civilizations on planet Earth, or the civilizations that we have documented history of. I'm a firm believer that human humanity's faced extinction.

SPEAKER_03 44:39

And oh, by the way, these a lot of these people have these opinions that have never even been outside the United States. We are such a baby of a country. It took 400 years to build that thing. It's like you you have no perspective as far as when you say they're as old as civilization. We're nothing compared to.

SPEAKER_01 45:03

So to put it to put when Iran's throwing f a rockets, all was one person saying is all it takes is one person to say, lob all the rockets toward Israel. And that's what they were doing. One person, the Ayatollah. Trump can say, I want to nuke. Hold up. It has to go through a couple of people first.

SPEAKER_03 45:22

Oh, you mean he doesn't have a button that he can just press? There's not a button underneath his desk?

SPEAKER_01 45:26

Everybody that thinks he's got a fing button is fing dumb. There's so many processes to fing even let that thing go. Oh, yeah. Shout out to Easton Meadows. There we go. So, but anybody that fing knows, man, you're going out there. Trump says, hey, I want to, I wanna, I wanna go ahead and bomb the f out of that. It's like, all right, what do you want to use? That needs clearance, man. We can't do that because of collateral damage. Because there's these think tanks, there's these people's like, hey man, they're doing numbers. Number crunch is like, hey man, that does that. That's not feasible because now you're killing more innocents than you are the bad guy. So you can't do that. And then the scale of like, okay, now you have nuclear fallout. Now you have all these things. You have all of these things that go inside that goes on the thing. Trump can't push the button. And even if he was like, okay, it's cleared somebody else has to be there. And if that person isn't signing on, it doesn't happen.

SPEAKER_03 46:21

Right.

SPEAKER_01 46:22

He's not bomb, he's not nuking nobody.

SPEAKER_03 46:24

He doesn't have the I have an easy button right there behind you. That was easy. He doesn't have that button. It's not happening.

SPEAKER_01 46:30

Anybody that anybody that thinks that they know better is like, really, since I'd like to know what is your experience working within these things in close operations involving like handling. So, like, for instance, my experience in the Air Force is security forces and running if running flights and managing and being a canine handler deployed over things. We have planes that arrive that require special security. They travel with their security. We have to also provide security for that plane or that aircraft. And nobody can get in because there's an entry authority list on that plane. That plane launches nukes from wherever the f in the world. Problem, guess what you need? You need multiple people to authorize. So it's like, what are you talking about?

SPEAKER_02 47:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:22

Like all of these things, and it's real easy to it's real easy to make a blanket statement and call whoever, whoever you want to, a liberal, a conservative, left-wing lunatic, or hard right wing nut job, right? There's classifications across all. We can all fing say the all, oh, yeah, you're you're you're that type of person because you're wearing the MAGA, oh, you're that type of person because you got the septum piercing, right? It's real easy to label and identify and just put a blood, swath, a blanket over everybody. But no, it's different. The United States is different when it comes to launching shit. And everybody can say, well, we're bombing the shit out of Iran. And I'd I'd question these, like, all right, so how many civilian deaths has Iran taken hold of in in comparison to the civilian deaths in the other countries? And then they're gonna bring up the kids, the 143, the 143 uh children that died on the thing. And I guess the the White House came out and says, yep, that was us. It's like, huh, all right. So I can almost guarantee you it's like, all right, what was the intelligence for that thing? Because that thing was right off a military installation. In fact, it was part of a military installation based on old reports. So it comes down to like that school was on a military, was on a military installation, and it was deemed as a credible target for housing, whatever the f because if you see all the things that come in, this is the square of the building, and all of these targets are getting hit, squacked, like smack dab in the middle of the facility. Why does this one only have that one fing corner? To me, that was like a selective target. Why would you select only that when all of the others have little like drilled right there in the middle? So it raises question. I'm not saying that it's it has any tinfoil hat shit behind it. All I'm saying is like needs to be looked at, just like everything. Hey man, I need you to look at the other, I need you to look at your source, and I need you to look at a conflicting source and then figure out something in the middle.

SPEAKER_02 49:24

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 49:25

It's called construct, it's called critical thinking. Yeah something that we've gone away with because I want to be part of a group. Use parrot the same shit I agree with.

SPEAKER_03 49:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 49:34

It's like, no, so people are shopping for their own truth. Why aren't you listening to to the opposing view then and come up with your own decision?

SPEAKER_00 49:41

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 49:42

I mean, if it still lands that way, still land, but you gave the opportunity, you gave yourself the opportunity to be like, huh. All right, let me see what's going on on this side.

SPEAKER_03 49:51

Yep. All it is critical thinking, something that we well, it's yeah, that uh yeah. Um, okay. Last question, and I appreciate your time and your candor. Let's dude. I can do this shit all day. I know you can. Um we have a mutual friend. I won't uh who shall not be named, but she I've talked to her about she has, I believe, uh real anxiety about what's going on in the world today. Uh-huh. And that the United States is, you know, could we be eradicated because of all the stuff that's going on or, you know, destroyed. And I told this individual, we actually had this conversation, I think, two or three years ago, and now obviously, if we kind of I I think I brought it back up to her recently, but uh I told her that, you know, if anybody decides that they're gonna mess with the United States of America, I have complete faith that we will come out on top. Now that's quite a statement, and it's not just red, white, and blue, but it's what I believe. I believe that Americans were to happen, I'm talking about if something were to happen on our soil, like multiple, you know, multiple states, night like 9-11, but times 10. And if we had to go to war, how would are we gonna survive it? And and I have just absolutely no doubt that we would come out on top. Am I nuts?

SPEAKER_01 51:33

So I grew up in the south.

SPEAKER_03 51:36

I thought this might be a fun little bit.

SPEAKER_01 51:38

This is this is this is a good this is a good closer. This is a good like game to play, like especially on post, right? I come from I grew up in the south in Alabama. In Alabama, it was not uncommon when you're out in the country, like in Gurley and shit, Madison County, where you see deer on the front of hoods of pickup trucks, yeah, where these kids that are in high school spend all weekend out hunting in the forest or in their head, and then they come to school right after they get done with the rifle and the rifle rack. Yeah, I can't. No problem. No, nothing.

SPEAKER_03 52:17

No nothing.

SPEAKER_01 52:19

When you start saying that, and there's there's that whole thing, right? There's a there's as many guns in America as there are blades of grass. And what is that dude from China? The blade every book behind every blade of grass is a gun. Nobody's gonna like for instance, the terrorist fucks, the guys throwing bombs at Mamdanis, at the protesters protesting Mamdani, right? And about the the whole uh the uh immigration thing, where this one guy is talking, and all of a sudden you hear see this this Middle Eastern looking person is screaming Alu Akbar and throwing an actual IED in this crowd, and it's lit, and it has the fuse, but the fuse didn't ignite, it did it, it didn't go down. So now they grab this guy, and you actually see the cops jump this guy, and you see some cops getting some f licks in. I'm like, they should have let it go on further, but anyway, the kit. So when you have these things, they know that they can't do that, so this is the only way to do this is to get involved and do the like guerrilla warfare. That's all it is. That's how how do you think we technically lost Vietnam through guerrilla warfare, through small, small uh party tactics, harassment, all of those things. This is no different, absolutely no different. The problem is it's communication. One we've been saying this shit since ever since. Do more with less. So now when you have less people on the streets, you have less people like keeping eyes on the road and being being the protectors of the community because of whatever political ideology you want to associate yourself with or theories, defund the police, ACAB, all that bullshit. That shit can go fing rot in hell. You take those people off the streets, they don't have the ability to like enforce and keep the community safe anywhere because now you you have the law. And then people like this, they understand as like this. Of course, I'm preaching to the choir with you on this. Now they see the opportunity to act a fool, and the chances of them getting caught is less. So you have these incidents, and the incidents are always increasing, they're always getting out, but now we have cool technology, phones where I could be right there as the incident recording it and be the be the news right then and there. Like you see, the the shootings in Minnesota. Everybody's got a phone, and they're like using this footage for court, and but all parties involved. The lady who lost her wife, the officer who made the shot, the officer who had a camp. Everybody's got a camp. Everybody's in news, like Elon Musk said. But no, man, United States, we're nobody's fing with us. Nobody has the culture that we have involved in like our stone, our and I would say, I would even say it's kind of it's kind of like we think we're better than others because we have the ability to say whatever the f we want. I could go tell some, I could be in the United States and tell the United Kingdom to go f off. Tell their sheriff, what are you gonna do? Ah, let me use your language. What are you gonna do? You're gonna extradite me or I wish you would come on my fing doorstep so I could just push your shit in real quick. Run that mouth. This is we can get away with saying this. The problem is other countries don't, and they don't understand why this culture is ours here to begin with when their cultures have said something else totally in in its entirety. So they don't they don't grasp the concept. It's just like us going, it's just like ignorant people. I'm leaving perfect example. I'm leaving Alabama for the first time in my life, and I'm going over like somebody, I'm just using imaginary people here, and they go to India, they're gonna get a culture shock. Yeah, especially if they don't go around the touring sites and they see India for what it is, or they see Iraq, or they see Afghan, and if Afghanistan's touring now. I don't know if you want to trust those people. I mean, Taliban's running, I'm just saying, I'm not going to Afghanistan to vacation, but Afghanistan's got some really beautiful countryside. But when you see what Afghanistan is and the infrastructure behind it, and how weak and how susceptible it is to just tomfoolery, well, it's a dangerous place, and you don't understand what's really going on unless you're actually there. And you're talking to somebody who's lived in foreign nation in foreign nation for years at a time. Perspective. So it's like getting perspective and context behind all of these things. Like you, you've been all around the fing United States, man. You know all, you've kind of kind of actually been to like 15 countries, too. You, yeah, that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03 57:39

But not not not wearing the uniform like you know, it's a it's a different if it's it's a different thing. But I have perspective. I have perspective.

SPEAKER_01 57:45

If I'm getting political perspective from somebody, it's gonna be you. Because you've been on the fucking ground and you've dealt with political perspectives. I'm not a political person. I may have some thoughty thoughts. Thoughty thoughts. Yeah, and they may sound, oh, this motherfucker's on a tangent, but I'm not gonna act like I'm the political expert about all of this shit about how it all intertwines. I'm gonna be like, huh, that's new. I'm gonna ask you, hey Sam, off the record, what do you think about this? I'm not gonna quote you because that's not what friends do. No, I'm not gonna put you in a situation that's gonna f you up. I'm be like, hey man, off record. What do you think this is going on? And then you're just gonna be like, huh, I didn't think of it that way. That makes sense. All right. That's the whole fucking thing, is like subject matter experts is subject matter experts.

SPEAKER_03 58:33

But uh to land the plane here, we should tell our friend, sleep well tonight, my friend.

SPEAKER_01 58:41

Yes, 100%. Why are you worried about this shit?

SPEAKER_03 58:44

Sleep well tonight.

SPEAKER_01 58:45

Don't worry, why are you worrying about this shit? I see a lot of people worrying about things that that shouldn't be worrying. It's like, hey man, you need to worry about putting that money in your bank account. You need to be worried about putting a roof over your kid's head. You need to be putting it, and I understand, and I'm siding with them for a moment, and I understand that change doesn't take place until people start doing things to make change. I'm not saying that doesn't apply. But if you have higher priorities, such as kids, such as people that rely on you for certain things, I'm sure there are other avenues of you to worry about to assist in whatever you want to make change. Whereas, like, you not don't need to be worrying about that. You need to be worrying about making sure that your kids have clothes and are getting educated and getting food on the table, or your sick parents, or your sick family, or yourself that's in a precarious situation. Because what minimum wage hasn't changed in how many years? Or incrementally? Like you take a look, people were working at Walmart buying houses. They were buying houses in the 90s, working at Walmart. They were living and buying houses in Walmart working at Walmart.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:02

I could talk about interest rates and minimum wage, but the inflation the working wage never caught up, never kept up with inflation.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:10

It never did. And I think that was strategic ploy.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:14

All right, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:15

That's a whole other fucking part. But anyway, but no, okay. We're fine. Sleep well, so and so nobody's fing with us.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:21

Is there anything that we should cover that I haven't today? Anything else you wanted to add?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:27

I would no, yeah. We all come from different upbringings. Lived in experience is truth to you, but you can't say that your lived-in experience represents other people's lived-in experiences, and then you take those lived in experiences and see what is the modality. Is this the overall thing? What is the statistics rate? Is this accurate? Is this something that needs you went through your shit, but other people are going through shit too, man? Sometimes it just takes like, hey, giving people a pass on shit. Don't have to get hostile at each other because we're all the same team. We're all trying to get through the same bullshit, man. Yep. None of us, none of us have anything involving whatever's going on in the f of this. That is for the most part really directly reflect affecting us, minus like, hey, gas is higher. All of these things. When you start picking sides, you automatically pick enemies. When you start picking sides, you already fing label people that's a good guy or bad guy. And you can't do that, not with people, because there's no such thing as you and me share very similar experiences in different facets of life. You and me share the same opinions about things, but we also share the very different opposing opinions about certain things. But you and me are fing cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:57

Because we built this relationship with each other.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:00

People have stopped building relationships with each other because somebody looks a certain way or somebody votes or plays plays for a certain team.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:07

And you can be a punk on a keyboard and never leave your basement and not have to face the person that you're you're that's you're just freaking like tearing apart.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:16

It goes right back to when we were kids, right? You run your mouth, you get punched in the mouth at the playground.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:20

That's right, and that that doesn't happen anymore. Great point. Appreciate your time, brother.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:24

Yeah, man. It's always good.